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Talk:Starfleet ranks/archive
Garth is not proof of the RANK of Fleet Captain, only proof that the position exists. Let's be consistent, folks. Every other article on this site agrees: Fleet Captain is a title, not a rank. This is true in both fictional and non-fictional militaries. --Frank NX-01 Fleet Captain Garth, for the person asking for proof of the rank of Fleet Captain --TOSrules 06:42, 23 Sep 2005 (UTC) The rank of Fleet Captain was seen once in an episode of TNG when Picard was called away from the ship for a short time and a Fleet Captain took over for his position. It was an older man and he wore 5 gold pips indicating the rank. :No, it wasn't. If you're the only one who remembers such an event in a universe thats scrutinized more so than our own...perhaps...but people notice the color scheme irregularities in the LCARs. If you're talking about when Edward Jellico took command, you're mistaken...as he was a Captain with Captain pips. That was the only time someone else (outside of a Captain Riker) was officially in command of the Enterprise. Squiggyfm 20:10, 17 August 2006 (UTC) In Star Trek: The Motion Picture, the new uniform scheme was supposedly created leaving out lieutenant junior grade, and the former LTJG stripe was used on an officer referred to as an ensign in dialogue. but there were also ensigns without the broken stripe insignia, meaning that referring to the officer with the LTJG insignia as ensign was simply a dialogue mistake, and this shouldn't (in my opinion) be misconstrued as evidence that Starfleet just kind of 'misplaced' that rank for a few years and then reinstated it a few years later for the ST:2 uniforms. --Captain Mike K. Bartel :Yep, there's a production memo by Jon Povill in "The Making of TMP" which nails down the rank scheme for TMP. There is indeed no Lt. JG. He probably made the same mistake as did Okuda in the Encyclopedia by assuming that there is no Lt. JG rank because it wasn't used on TOS not knowing that in fact it was used in "The Naked Now". All those Yeomen, Specialists and Technicians are just Petty Officers. It's a combination between work description and enlisted rate. A Yeoman third class like Tina Lawton is a Petty Officer 3c who works as a yeoman. A Technician first class like Harrison is a PO 1c who works as a technician. A Chief Yeoman would be a Chief Petty Officer who works as a yeomaon, and so on... That Fleet Captain pin should be removed. It's totally non-canon. It was created by Shane Johnson and was originally intended to be a Commodore pin. :Further, on this wiki's page for fleet captain, it clearly says that it's a position, and not a rank. Some consistency is needed. The provisional Lt. pin was worn by Torres until TPTB retconned her rank to Lt. JG. And Seska, while referred to as Ensign, wore a black pip like all other Maquis with the exception of Chakotay, Torres, and possibly Ayala (not sure on him). Courtesy promotion? :Naval tradition dictates that there may only be one "captain" aboard ship; a visiting captain may receive a courtesy promotion to the rank of Commodore. Is there any evidence that this carries over to Starfleet? I suspect that it does, but I don't have a specific reference handy. -- (Anonymous: 216.193.172.114) Aboard United States Aircraft Carriers (from my Step-uncle who was a Master Chief Petty Officer) there was a Captain who was the Chief Executive Officer, A Captain who commanded the Air Group. A Captain who was the Chief Engineering Officer, A Captain who was in charge of all Communications, And the Senior Executive Officer of the ship was a Rear Admiral. And also on the same carrier, was a Vice Admiral who was in command of the Task Force. He said having two or three people with the Rank of Captain on a ship as large as a Carrier is not un-common. The typical pattern for this is that the Senior Executive, Chief Executive, and Flight Officer hold the rank of Captain. Sometimes the Chief Engineer also had the rank of Captain as well. He also said that a few Rear Admirals were in command of a Single Carrier. Time Travler 4:04 United States Central Standard Time. :Just a few comments: First, while it's entirely non-canon, Diane Duane's novel Spock's World mentions the courtesy issue (almost word-for-word with the above post). Secondly, these comments allow me to mention the line in Star Trek III: The Search for Spock when Scotty is told he's being promoted to "Captain of Engineering" for the Excelsior... this may have been the promotion that is the reason he is Captain Scott in TNG: "Relics". (I don't recall what his rank insignia was in ST5, but I didn't see him wearing any obvious rank insignia at all in ST6.). Third(ly), on naval vessels, the commanding officer of a vessel, regardless of his/her actual rank, is typically addressed as "captain" while in command of the vessel. This is in part due to the nature of the term "captain" as both a rank and a position. -- umrguy42 09:54, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC) ::Scotty wore captain's rank insignia in every movie after Star Trek III, although he would switch back and forth from his yellow engineer's shirt to his white command shirt. -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk 13:00, 21 Nov 2005 (UTC) There was an episode of Voyager where another Starfleet vessel was encountered in the Delta Quadrant. During the episode, the two captains are on board Voyager when Janeway quotes Starfleet regulations saying that if two captains are on one ship, the commanding officer of that ship holds superior rank. This would seem to go against the "courtesy promotion" idea where the "Commodore" would seem to outrank the Captain. Needs attention *Starfleet ranks contains broken image links for about 75% of the images on the page. -- Redfarmer 23:36, 8 Jan 2005 (CET) Valeris' Rank Insignia Valeris is listed here as a lieutenant, and is addressed as such in Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country, yet in the picture in her article, she is clearly wearing what is shown in this article as Lt. Cmdr's insignia. I was just wondering if there was an inconsistency somewhere... -- umrguy42 09:58, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC) :Valeris was a whole set of uniform errors, she wore a science officer's shoulder strap, a cadet's turtleneck, command officer's trousers and a lieutenant commander's insignia. We better stick to what was the intention in the screenplay -- Kobi - [[ :Kobi|( )]] 11:29, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC) ::Well, I assumed it was probably an error on the part of the filmmakers, especially given all the inconsistencies surrounding the Cadet/Lieutenant issue of Saavik --umrguy42 11:45, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC) :::I don't see any real inconsistency there -- she was an undergraduate officer who had a cadet rank of lieutenant junior grade, as denoted by her cadet division color and her ltjg insignia - this is consistent with Kirk being a Cadet Lieutenant also, when mentioned in TOS. The only oddity with Saavik is they meant for her to wear a gray science officer tab on her command division color in STIII, after she was already graduated -- so that's not a cadet issue, she is just an officer who ended up wearing a different division color while working in the science position -- something many officers have done before. -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk 15:44, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC) Yeoman not in list? Shouldn't Yeoman be listed on the main rank page? :Yeoman isn't a rank -- its a title. Try reading Yeoman. -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk 16:13, 7 Aug 2005 (UTC) :: And the Yeoman page starts off "Yeoman is a title, and a rank." ;) --IanWatson 16:27, 21 Nov 2005 (UTC) 23xx - Present?? It seems a bit odd to list insignia used from sometime in the 2300s as being used until the present, since the present is well before the 2300s. Shouldn't it be listed as 23xx-??? or 23xx-(blank) or something? Feets 05:58, 5 Nov 2005 (UTC) :On Memory Alpha the "present" is in the 2370s -- our POV has us treat the Star Trek universe as reality from that perspective -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk Pip skipping.. Anyone else notice a pip skip between Commander and Captain? most other ranks go * *o ** **o ***, with an empty pip every other rank, but there's no ***o between captain and commander. Anyone know if there was ever a rank there? :There was never one mentioned, nor was there ever one designed. It just goes from commander to captain with nothing in between. I think it's the same way with the naval ranking system. --From Andoria with Love 04:01, 23 October 2006 (UTC) ::One thing I find fascinating is the complete lack of rank pip for Lt. Commander in the 22nd century. --AC84 09:00, 23 October 2006 (PST) 22nd century crewmen ranks Considering that Crewman Fletcher wore no rank insignia, but all three of the other rank insignia have been confirmed as crewmen insignia, is it possible that the Earth Starfleet has four crewman grades? Or was the one-slash insignia worn by Daniels simply a disguise and does the Earth Starfleet follow the USN system? I'm trying to resolve this debate over at STEU, and any help would be most appreciated. --Kevin W. 22:21, 28 December 2006 (UTC) :Daniels was a crewman third class, so it is possible that Fletcher was a fourth class of crewman, a midshipman, or a warrant officer. It's also just as likely that Fletcher forgot to wear his rank insignia that day. :P --From Andoria with Love 22:27, 28 December 2006 (UTC) :For the record, the script specifies Fletcher as a crewman, so I guess he's a crewman fourth class... or, like I said, maybe he neglected to wear his rank pips. Who knows with them Starfleet folk. --From Andoria with Love 22:30, 28 December 2006 (UTC) Petty Officer Insignia I photoshopped the most logical insignia for the lower Petty Officers. It's obviously conjectural but it may be better than just having broken image links. Here's an example. Image:Tng po1.png Cory 06:19, 19 February 2007 (UTC) :I'd rather have no image links at all than either "conjectural" or broken links. --OuroborosCobra talk 06:35, 19 February 2007 (UTC)